Velomo HiTrike Pi
- Ersteller Jack-Lee
- Erstellt am
DanielDüsentrieb
gewerblich
- Beiträge
- 12.522
Eine Achse hat nur 40gram? Die muss ja mal hohl sein.
Mache doch mal ein Photo von ihr das man was sieht
Mache doch mal ein Photo von ihr das man was sieht
- Beiträge
- 10.064
DanielDüsentrieb
gewerblich
- Beiträge
- 12.522
Also ich sehe kein Bild.
Ein Bild ist wenn man das Gewinde die Versenkung, die Entgratung, das Durchgebohrte Loch erkennt. Dann zb. Noch auf einer Waage.
Ein Bild ist wenn man das Gewinde die Versenkung, die Entgratung, das Durchgebohrte Loch erkennt. Dann zb. Noch auf einer Waage.
- Beiträge
- 10.064
Ok dann sehe nur ich ein Bild im Beitrag 340 wo div. Achsen liegen
was deinen Ansprüchen an ein Bild offensichtlich nicht erfüllt aber
da wird es bestimmt bald eins geben mit Preis dabei.
was deinen Ansprüchen an ein Bild offensichtlich nicht erfüllt aber
da wird es bestimmt bald eins geben mit Preis dabei.
Jack-Lee
gewerblich
- Beiträge
- 31.623
Servus,
ich setz heut Abend nochmal ein Bild ein.
Es sind die gleichen Maße wie sie original bei den Velomobiel.nl Velomobilen eingesetzt werden.
Am Federbein eine M8 Senkschraube zum befestigen und das Rad wird mit einer M6 Schraube gesichert.
Die Achsen sind 12mm im Durchmesser, aus Vollmaterial und die Löcher für die Gewinde jeweils 30mm tief.
Gruß,
Patrick
ich setz heut Abend nochmal ein Bild ein.
Es sind die gleichen Maße wie sie original bei den Velomobiel.nl Velomobilen eingesetzt werden.
Am Federbein eine M8 Senkschraube zum befestigen und das Rad wird mit einer M6 Schraube gesichert.
Die Achsen sind 12mm im Durchmesser, aus Vollmaterial und die Löcher für die Gewinde jeweils 30mm tief.
Gruß,
Patrick
DanielDüsentrieb
gewerblich
- Beiträge
- 12.522
Die Originalen haben so um die 160g in Titan dann.
Eine Achse dürfte dann 44-46 Gramm haben.
Eine Achse dürfte dann 44-46 Gramm haben.
- Beiträge
- 10.064
Preis, Preis, Preis?
Gear7Lover
gewerblich
- Beiträge
- 14.187
Hmm Titan hat ja noch einen kleineren Wärmedehnungkoeffizient als Stahl...
F
Freddyflatfoot
Hi. First of all let me apologise for writing in English! I hope that the readers of this thread can understand me. I am very interested in the suspension design of the Hi Trike, and wish to find out more about it. The one forum thread I have been following on the recumbent.com forum, has been fairly negative about the concept. One poster has been dissing the concept by saying that there will be braking problems causing the suspension to wind up, or roll over. Even suggesting that there should be track rods to stabilise the front end!
Anyway, I am looking at modifying my homebuilt trike with coroplast velomobile body. It currently has no suspension, and I am over the rough ride!
I would like to replicate the system at least in principal. The current idea is to use second hand snow skis as the basis for the leaf suspension.
I realize that this May not be as refined as the Hi trike suspension system, but will it work?
Any input will be appreciated! Thanks in advance, Rob
Anyway, I am looking at modifying my homebuilt trike with coroplast velomobile body. It currently has no suspension, and I am over the rough ride!
I would like to replicate the system at least in principal. The current idea is to use second hand snow skis as the basis for the leaf suspension.
I realize that this May not be as refined as the Hi trike suspension system, but will it work?
Any input will be appreciated! Thanks in advance, Rob
- Beiträge
- 9.969
Hello and good morning, Rob!
I am sure, quite a few users can understand you without problems.
The HiTrike uses a double leaf laminated spring and as far as I know there are no reports from any prototype or final build user about braking problems or winding up/rolling over occurences.
But I am no owner of one of those (yet), so you might wait for responses from test drivers / buyers or technical response from @Jack-Lee, who builds those bikes/trikes. He is very helpful, don't worry.
I have tried out several laminated/baked sheets made from fiberglass, carbon fiber and fiberglass-carbon fiber hybrids for their break-/swing withstanding stability. It depends on the exact type of the compound/laminate. Some will withstand it a while but earlier or later get delaminated or crack/shatter, some will loose their spring tension quite rapide.
Those leaf spring laminates from BuS Velomos Trikes are specially made from a manufacturer, which builds those for spring usage - so they last a very long time and are precisely adjustable in the manufacturing process to the needs of the buyer.
My own tests gave the best results with Trampa Mountainboard Decks, which are also laminated glassfiber compounds and baked afterwards, which makes them nearly indestructible and yet pretty affordable.
Those are, same as those leaf spring laminates, exactly made for this type of application, so they withstand years of usag withut instant failure even in harsh overload conditions. They tend to get weaker in the time, but before they "let you sit on the asphalt" after ridden down to a lighter spring pressure/tension, you can still achieve several long travels without having to worry about spontanous failures.
That's one of the aspects I love this suspension technology for - it is nearly impossible to get an instant failure like on air suspensions. Unfortunately it is also impossible without adding an air suspension to get a lock-out function.
About the usage of snow skiers: I don't know their laminate buildups, so I can't say much about it. If you have the chance to test one, if it will be usable, then overload it like 100 times with a ways bigger load. If they delaminate or break/"explode" I would skip on them.. If not, then try it out. Worst luck would be that they loose their tension too early.
Best regards
Wolf
I am sure, quite a few users can understand you without problems.
The HiTrike uses a double leaf laminated spring and as far as I know there are no reports from any prototype or final build user about braking problems or winding up/rolling over occurences.
But I am no owner of one of those (yet
), so you might wait for responses from test drivers / buyers or technical response from @Jack-Lee, who builds those bikes/trikes. He is very helpful, don't worry. I have tried out several laminated/baked sheets made from fiberglass, carbon fiber and fiberglass-carbon fiber hybrids for their break-/swing withstanding stability. It depends on the exact type of the compound/laminate. Some will withstand it a while but earlier or later get delaminated or crack/shatter, some will loose their spring tension quite rapide.
Those leaf spring laminates from BuS Velomos Trikes are specially made from a manufacturer, which builds those for spring usage - so they last a very long time and are precisely adjustable in the manufacturing process to the needs of the buyer.
My own tests gave the best results with Trampa Mountainboard Decks, which are also laminated glassfiber compounds and baked afterwards, which makes them nearly indestructible and yet pretty affordable.
Those are, same as those leaf spring laminates, exactly made for this type of application, so they withstand years of usag withut instant failure even in harsh overload conditions. They tend to get weaker in the time, but before they "let you sit on the asphalt" after ridden down to a lighter spring pressure/tension, you can still achieve several long travels without having to worry about spontanous failures.
That's one of the aspects I love this suspension technology for - it is nearly impossible to get an instant failure like on air suspensions. Unfortunately it is also impossible without adding an air suspension to get a lock-out function.
About the usage of snow skiers: I don't know their laminate buildups, so I can't say much about it. If you have the chance to test one, if it will be usable, then overload it like 100 times with a ways bigger load. If they delaminate or break/"explode" I would skip on them.. If not, then try it out. Worst luck would be that they loose their tension too early.
Best regards
Wolf
F
Freddyflatfoot
Wolf, thanks for your quick reply! I am encouraged by your response. At least it seems like a project that will be quick and satisfying! Yes, I was intending to test the skis before I use them and load them up accordingly. I am buying one set this week, and may have a lead on a further 3 sets. All cheap! With more than one set to test, I can determine which maybe the best choice!
I also intend changing my steering setup at the same time, to side stick steering. My current direct steer wont work with suspension!
May I ask how you attached the kingpins to the suspension leafs? I am considering a fixed mount on the bottom leaf, with a horizontal swivel/bolt arrangement on the top leaf.
I also intend changing my steering setup at the same time, to side stick steering. My current direct steer wont work with suspension!
May I ask how you attached the kingpins to the suspension leafs? I am considering a fixed mount on the bottom leaf, with a horizontal swivel/bolt arrangement on the top leaf.
- Beiträge
- 9.969
Hello Rob,
if they are made from GFK/CFK laminates, which it sounds like, I would suggest you either watercutting them in a local watercut-store, if available, or sawing them with a hard metal sawblade for the jigsaw. Those work well with this type of laminate without breaking down after a few centimeters of cutting length (loosing teeths).
Still I would suggest drawing a digital CAD 2D sketch and let some watercut-provider cut it out - its ways more precise and I can assume in this type of suspension usage you would want them as precise as they can get (else you might have different suspension behaviour on right and left front wheels).
Oh, don't get me wrong, I did not test them in regards of a front suspension of my trike. I tested several laminates for their usage as "one sheet leaf spring" board with two wheels in the front and two wheels in the back, so basically the suspension concept you would have, if you stood in the middle of your front frame.
Still it is the same principle, as they were tested with harsh force. For this reason they were nearly double as broad or pretty thick, so one "leaf spring" as a board (better: deck) could withstand even high jumps.
My Kingpins were (as you would guess from boards with the build-up like a longboard) diagonally in the front and rear on the axlebases. But if used on a trike as front suspension I would try to use some frame attachment to keep the holes in the "springs" filled tightly and clamped against the frame carrier. A set of screws might, depending on their diameter and if they possess a fitting shaft, result in some tolerance, if not cut precisely (and this could indeed cause wobbling or problems with the sideway torsion in corners & while you use the brakes).
As an alternative you could cut them in a way so they slid into a "cage" and are bolted to it, this way sideway turning relative to the frame direction is not possible, even if the screws are not fitting exactly, because the cage locks the leaf spring in position.
I hope I did explain the idea behind in an understandable fashion. And good night, 21 hours awaken, time for bed.
Best regards
Wolf
if they are made from GFK/CFK laminates, which it sounds like, I would suggest you either watercutting them in a local watercut-store, if available, or sawing them with a hard metal sawblade for the jigsaw. Those work well with this type of laminate without breaking down after a few centimeters of cutting length (loosing teeths).
Still I would suggest drawing a digital CAD 2D sketch and let some watercut-provider cut it out - its ways more precise and I can assume in this type of suspension usage you would want them as precise as they can get (else you might have different suspension behaviour on right and left front wheels).
Oh, don't get me wrong, I did not test them in regards of a front suspension of my trike. I tested several laminates for their usage as "one sheet leaf spring" board with two wheels in the front and two wheels in the back, so basically the suspension concept you would have, if you stood in the middle of your front frame.
Still it is the same principle, as they were tested with harsh force. For this reason they were nearly double as broad or pretty thick, so one "leaf spring" as a board (better: deck) could withstand even high jumps.
My Kingpins were (as you would guess from boards with the build-up like a longboard) diagonally in the front and rear on the axlebases. But if used on a trike as front suspension I would try to use some frame attachment to keep the holes in the "springs" filled tightly and clamped against the frame carrier. A set of screws might, depending on their diameter and if they possess a fitting shaft, result in some tolerance, if not cut precisely (and this could indeed cause wobbling or problems with the sideway torsion in corners & while you use the brakes).
As an alternative you could cut them in a way so they slid into a "cage" and are bolted to it, this way sideway turning relative to the frame direction is not possible, even if the screws are not fitting exactly, because the cage locks the leaf spring in position.
I hope I did explain the idea behind in an understandable fashion.
And good night, 21 hours awaken, time for bed. Best regards
Wolf
- Beiträge
- 16.642
Hi Rob.
Don't worry; it is in the very nature of a forum, that every concept is dissed or any idea refused by someone.
Even though I am not totally convinced of a suspension concept with leaf spring laminates yet (especially for rides with luggage or heavy people), the principle is proved since 1985- without any braking problems.
It may be misleading to conclude across-the-board from a general concept to a specific project and draw superficial and premature conclusions without knowledge of its implementation in more detail.
Although a trike would be the second (or third) choice for me in general, this is a promising concept for a light weight and comfortable one (to be honest, I would appreciate a test ride). Try your own project and -much to our delight- post it here as it progresses.
I am sure you will get support from well-experienced professionals and helpful suggestions from people with special and longstanding expertise...
…and of cause people with scant regard for other people’s ideas too.
Best regards,
Christoph
Don't worry; it is in the very nature of a forum, that every concept is dissed or any idea refused by someone.
Even though I am not totally convinced of a suspension concept with leaf spring laminates yet (especially for rides with luggage or heavy people), the principle is proved since 1985- without any braking problems.
It may be misleading to conclude across-the-board from a general concept to a specific project and draw superficial and premature conclusions without knowledge of its implementation in more detail.
Although a trike would be the second (or third) choice for me in general, this is a promising concept for a light weight and comfortable one (to be honest, I would appreciate a test ride). Try your own project and -much to our delight- post it here as it progresses.
I am sure you will get support from well-experienced professionals and helpful suggestions from people with special and longstanding expertise...
…and of cause people with scant regard for other people’s ideas too.
Best regards,
Christoph
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
- Beiträge
- 9.969
Hello Christoph,
you are welcome to post further experiences with leaf-spring concepts and multiple compound materials. At least my knowledge of the HiTrike front suspension is based on multiple hours of communication with the builder and multiple years of usage in form of deck suspension for offroad boards and jumps (although I don't jump on them from 10 meters of height, kiteboarders do this regulary).
I created even a design study to mix the principles of air suspension and leaf spring suspension for redundancy and different response for different types of shocks/swing frequencys.
If you call this "scant regards", maybe you can post some deep knowledge to the usage of leaf spring compounds.
Best regards
Wolf
…and of cause people with scant regard for other people’s ideas too.
you are welcome to post further experiences with leaf-spring concepts and multiple compound materials. At least my knowledge of the HiTrike front suspension is based on multiple hours of communication with the builder and multiple years of usage in form of deck suspension for offroad boards and jumps (although I don't jump on them from 10 meters of height, kiteboarders do this regulary).
I created even a design study to mix the principles of air suspension and leaf spring suspension for redundancy and different response for different types of shocks/swing frequencys.
If you call this "scant regards", maybe you can post some deep knowledge to the usage of leaf spring compounds.
Best regards
Wolf
- Beiträge
- 16.642
???
- Beiträge
- 9.969
Hallo Christoph,
bezogest Du Dich mit der Anspielung nicht auf mich?
Ich ging davon aus, es hatte niemand vor oder nach mir auf seine Anfrage geantwortet, welchen Du hättest meinen können. "Scant regards" bedeutet meines Wissens nach "verschwindend geringer Bezug", so wenig Bezug hat es nicht.
Falls es ein Missverständnis war, nichts für ungut.
Viele Grüße
Wolf
bezogest Du Dich mit der Anspielung nicht auf mich?
Ich ging davon aus, es hatte niemand vor oder nach mir auf seine Anfrage geantwortet, welchen Du hättest meinen können. "Scant regards" bedeutet meines Wissens nach "verschwindend geringer Bezug", so wenig Bezug hat es nicht.
Falls es ein Missverständnis war, nichts für ungut.
Viele Grüße
Wolf
F
Freddyflatfoot
Thanks for the encouragement guys! This will be about my 7th build, although initially it will be just a modification. I have already built 3 trikes, 1 dual 20" FWD commuter, 1 SWB 'bent, 1 MBB bike, and 1 mid racer. The trike I will be modifying for suspension, will be the one that currently has a coro velomobile body. I originally built this trike in around 2008! (26" rear, and 20" front, direct steer trike). Eventually, I would like to add rear suspension as well, but this should be less of an issue.
I am confused about how this forum works? Wolf, you had 2 replies that were/are in English, but your last one where you addressed Christoph, is in German? But I no longer have a translate function? I find this a little weird!
Anyway, I pick up several sets of old skis over the next few days, so I will test them for flexibility and see what I come up with. Ciao!
I am confused about how this forum works? Wolf, you had 2 replies that were/are in English, but your last one where you addressed Christoph, is in German? But I no longer have a translate function? I find this a little weird!
Anyway, I pick up several sets of old skis over the next few days, so I will test them for flexibility and see what I come up with. Ciao!
- Beiträge
- 9.969
Good morning, Rob,
you've build alot of vehicles, it seems. Do you have a few images or maybe a link to another thread with images elsewhere? I love to see the technical side in pictures.
Yes, this is mainly a german forum so we communicate mostly in german. But it doesn't break any rules if some guest like you or other users from the netherlands as example write some questions/posts in english, as alot of us can read and write english pretty understandable.
The reason why I responded to him in english was, because I thought he was attacking my response to you (in english) cynically regarding how unhelpful my answers are, because I didn't use those types of leaf springs on my trike yet but instead as decks for boards. But after all it was just a misunderstanding which we solved (this is why I wrote in german to him, because it leads to less misunderstandings for us non-english-natives).
Best regards
Wolf
you've build alot of vehicles, it seems. Do you have a few images or maybe a link to another thread with images elsewhere? I love to see the technical side in pictures.
Yes, this is mainly a german forum so we communicate mostly in german. But it doesn't break any rules if some guest like you or other users from the netherlands as example write some questions/posts in english, as alot of us can read and write english pretty understandable.
The reason why I responded to him in english was, because I thought he was attacking my response to you (in english) cynically regarding how unhelpful my answers are, because I didn't use those types of leaf springs on my trike yet but instead as decks for boards. But after all it was just a misunderstanding which we solved (this is why I wrote in german to him, because it leads to less misunderstandings for us non-english-natives).
Best regards
Wolf