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That is a stupid idea, i love it!
But how about short levers on the wheel well? The Connection would be a little complicated, but there has to be a nice way to do it.
Agilo velomobile
- Ersteller anotherkiwi
- Erstellt am
But how about short levers on the wheel well? The Connection would be a little complicated, but there has to be a nice way to do it.
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Also dahin, wo die Unterschenkel durchmüssen?
Ich verstehe Deinen Gedankengang nicht.
Gruß,
Tim
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So we now have an official energy usage number - I have just completed the full recharge of the battery after my tour.
14.3 Ah
617.76 Wh
= 3.39 Wh/km
That is less than half the energy used by my electric trike, 45.2% more precisely.
So allowing for external factors - wind, weight, hills, ... my battery is a 150 km battery.
14.3 Ah
617.76 Wh
= 3.39 Wh/km
That is less than half the energy used by my electric trike, 45.2% more precisely.
So allowing for external factors - wind, weight, hills, ... my battery is a 150 km battery.
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
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@TimB I had seen the Velomo tiller and...
I had a couple of bar ends in the parts box. Yes it is very heavy, it is a proof of concept, not a finished product.
The brakes? Absolutely bloody fantastic!
A vélomobile that stops! I can't quite block the wheels from 35 km/h and, no, I did not measure the distance scientifically but it certainly stops several metres shorter than with the combined brakes. One handed braking is fine at normal around town speeds, there is no deviation. Or should I say no uncontrolled deviation.
And guess what happened to the turning circle? I can rub the tyres against the wheel well now if I choose.
- the cable outers will be taped to the bar ends
- a solution for the brake light switch will be found
- I can still change gears, the hand position is different
- while not tank steering the shoulders back position is almost there
- parking brake for the moment is a velcro strip
- my brakes are finally legal! 2 brake levers braking on 2 separate wheels here in France as it is in Germany I think
- balanced braking is done where it should be, in my brain
- I may insert inline brake cable adjusters for fine tuning
I had a couple of bar ends in the parts box. Yes it is very heavy, it is a proof of concept, not a finished product.
The brakes? Absolutely bloody fantastic!
A vélomobile that stops! I can't quite block the wheels from 35 km/h and, no, I did not measure the distance scientifically but it certainly stops several metres shorter than with the combined brakes. One handed braking is fine at normal around town speeds, there is no deviation. Or should I say no uncontrolled deviation.And guess what happened to the turning circle? I can rub the tyres against the wheel well now if I choose.
- the cable outers will be taped to the bar ends
- a solution for the brake light switch will be found
- I can still change gears, the hand position is different
- while not tank steering the shoulders back position is almost there
- parking brake for the moment is a velcro strip
- my brakes are finally legal! 2 brake levers braking on 2 separate wheels here in France as it is in Germany I think
- balanced braking is done where it should be, in my brain
- I may insert inline brake cable adjusters for fine tuning
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The tiller usually has 2 levers, they are just connected at the top.2 brake levers braking on 2 separate wheels here in France as it is in Germany I think
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The brakes in cars are also operated by only one pedal and are nevertheless considered to be independent brakes from each other.
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Cars are not bicycles. That is clearly defined in the rules and regulations. The French are a bit strange, separate is separate here, I think it might have something to do with Descartes?
In any case stopping distance is MUCH shorter with real brake levers and I feel more secure. That is the most important thing n'est pas?
In any case stopping distance is MUCH shorter with real brake levers and I feel more secure. That is the most important thing n'est pas?
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No, it has something to do with cables breaking.The French are a bit strange, separate is separate here, I think it might have something to do with Descartes?
I never liked the brake on the tiller, either, although it works .
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But there are losses in the construction, and You usually brake with only one hand. That Tiller forces You to use both hands - in a similar way You will automatically use both hands on, say, a Scorpion trike. And that will increase the braking force a lot.
If the tiller of my VM was not too long i would have made such an attempt as well. After testing how the VM would be controllable if You break with just one brake.
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You brake with one hand in situations where the other hand is doing something else, like getting the bottle of water. Personally I don't tend to do that when rolling downhill at more than 50 km/h
It is anormal reflex to hold the tiller with both hands when the speed goes up and that is when you need the full power of both brakes. My testing at 30 km/h showed that one handed braking at that speed is perfectly stable. The shape of the tiller also gives much more leverage so you counter with the steering much more easily.
This is only a testing solution, in the future I really want to build a tank steering system. Because I prefer it and because I can
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1 hand is stronger than 1 finger. Two hands are even stronger. When u rebuild it to Panzer steering, u also get much shorter cables wich also helps. I have a toeclip strap on my Panzerlever, samething as a velcro strip, but a bit easier to live with, i think. Release and thighten with 1 hand.
The levers ( Dia Compe) also have a build in knob that can be pushed in as a parkingbrake. There is very little flex in the short cable. So i get two options, adjust the brakes so that the knob can be pushed in. But in that position, the lever is almost locked agianst the handlebar. So in braking while moving, i might get the levers touching the bars. Other option is having the brakes grab early enough to my liking, but not being able to push the button. That's the one i took.
I find Tanksteering does take up a bit more space, since your arms get lower and more to your side. Also the elbows need room to move behind the seatline, when turning. U move the Lever closer to the rider, and then the underarm, needs space, about 40 cm behind the lever(handlebar) There may be a reïnforcement/luggage hatch in the way.
The levers ( Dia Compe) also have a build in knob that can be pushed in as a parkingbrake. There is very little flex in the short cable. So i get two options, adjust the brakes so that the knob can be pushed in. But in that position, the lever is almost locked agianst the handlebar. So in braking while moving, i might get the levers touching the bars. Other option is having the brakes grab early enough to my liking, but not being able to push the button. That's the one i took.
I find Tanksteering does take up a bit more space, since your arms get lower and more to your side. Also the elbows need room to move behind the seatline, when turning. U move the Lever closer to the rider, and then the underarm, needs space, about 40 cm behind the lever(handlebar) There may be a reïnforcement/luggage hatch in the way.
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I don't use the luggage compartment covers any more. Grams saved
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It is good that this is true for the Agilo. With the Scorpio it was not fully perfect, but it could be handled. And that's why i would (and will) test it .
Anyway, IMHO every VM actually needs to be safely stoppable with only one brake, at least in case of a defect like a broken cable.
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More testing yesterday over 20 km around town with the usual hills.
Agilo brakes from 50 to 30 km/h over about the same distance as my trike. The trike weighs 20 kg less and is 3 km/h slower (47 km/h at the same spot). I would say that is a pretty successful result? Of course I brake differently on the trike so as to not block the wheels there, which it can do since I used the sanding tool on the brake drums.
One handed braking is possible at 50 km/h without serious deviation from trajectory. Of course without the same braking power, just slowing to stay with the flow of traffic. The second hand was nearby in case of more urgent braking during this test of course.
The cables have seated/stretched and some fine tuning is required but all is working well.
Agilo brakes from 50 to 30 km/h over about the same distance as my trike. The trike weighs 20 kg less and is 3 km/h slower (47 km/h at the same spot). I would say that is a pretty successful result?
Of course I brake differently on the trike so as to not block the wheels there, which it can do since I used the sanding tool on the brake drums.One handed braking is possible at 50 km/h without serious deviation from trajectory. Of course without the same braking power, just slowing to stay with the flow of traffic. The second hand was nearby in case of more urgent braking during this test of course.
The cables have seated/stretched and some fine tuning is required but all is working well.
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Another try with more scientific speed and distance observation at the same spot:
- 50.98 km/h to 29.6 km/h between a 30 km/h sign and the entry ramp of a speed bump, distance 27 metres and approx 3% gradient.
- absolutely no deviation in direction
With the combined VM.nl tiller lever I was braking much earlier than that. And if there was even the slightest imbalance in the brakes there was significant deviation in direction that needed to be corrected with the tiller.
Other than the extra weight I am very satisfied with the optimisation, yesterday I could hear the brake pads biting the drum for the first time. Now I need a small bracket to mount the brake light switch and it will be done.
- 50.98 km/h to 29.6 km/h between a 30 km/h sign and the entry ramp of a speed bump, distance 27 metres and approx 3% gradient.
- absolutely no deviation in direction
With the combined VM.nl tiller lever I was braking much earlier than that. And if there was even the slightest imbalance in the brakes there was significant deviation in direction that needed to be corrected with the tiller.
Other than the extra weight I am very satisfied with the optimisation, yesterday I could hear the brake pads biting the drum for the first time. Now I need a small bracket to mount the brake light switch and it will be done.
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Agilo goes to Irun!
I finally drove the road that I wanted a vélomobile for at the beginning of this long story. I tried making a BRouter map but I am limited in BRouter skills and it annoyed me. There is also a spot where I totally disagree with the gradients coming back up the main road. I know what 4-6% looks like, we have that all over the place and both BRouter and Google Maps show the first ramp as that gradient. I know that 4-6 % with a Bafang BBS01 is 8th gear on the Rohloff and 24 km/h, today I was using 6th gear at 17 km/h, someone is wrong...
So 1st stage from Saint Jean de Luz to Hendaye, the end of the beach. That gave me the chance to drive on a flat section for about 2 km with no cars to slow me and at a relaxed 32-35 km/h. Remember my freewheel clutch in the motor is engaged. A short stop to check the numbers and an average of 6.34 Wh/km from the battery over that section - compare to 2.8 Wh/km on my short tour, it gives an idea of the gradients along the coastal road. Of course people stopped and asked questions, I am amazed that people still think motor assistance has no speed limit! "But you were going much faster than 25 km/h?" Yes, I was pedalling...
Then to Irun stadium where I took a left hand turn onto the ring road and off to Behobia and then up the D810 (see first paragraph). About 2.4 km up then down to Urrugne.
I was not pedalling... And @Felix will be pleased to know there was a crosswind from the south and large trucks went by in the other direction. I could probably have reached 75 km/h but I had to brake for cars in front of me. Twice, there is a speed camera and of course everyone slows to 60-65 km/h for that "just in case...". Food prices are rising so rice and ramen recipe books are on the coffee table
34.28 km at an average speed of 26.05 km/h (with 1 stop at 15.7 km) and 6.09 Wh/km average from the battery. Air temperature 27 ºC outside and inside 31 ºC, brilliant sunshine and no rain... Southerly wind gusting to 4 Beaufort, a little more in gaps between the plane trees.
Incident: an Asiatic wasp came in through the opening in the windscreen at about 60 km/h It was sucked out instantly through the side window opening.
I finally drove the road that I wanted a vélomobile for at the beginning of this long story. I tried making a BRouter map but I am limited in BRouter skills and it annoyed me. There is also a spot where I totally disagree with the gradients coming back up the main road. I know what 4-6% looks like, we have that all over the place and both BRouter and Google Maps show the first ramp as that gradient. I know that 4-6 % with a Bafang BBS01 is 8th gear on the Rohloff and 24 km/h, today I was using 6th gear at 17 km/h, someone is wrong...
So 1st stage from Saint Jean de Luz to Hendaye, the end of the beach. That gave me the chance to drive on a flat section for about 2 km with no cars to slow me and at a relaxed 32-35 km/h. Remember my freewheel clutch in the motor is engaged. A short stop to check the numbers and an average of 6.34 Wh/km from the battery over that section - compare to 2.8 Wh/km on my short tour, it gives an idea of the gradients along the coastal road. Of course people stopped and asked questions, I am amazed that people still think motor assistance has no speed limit! "But you were going much faster than 25 km/h?" Yes, I was pedalling...
Then to Irun stadium where I took a left hand turn onto the ring road and off to Behobia and then up the D810 (see first paragraph). About 2.4 km up then down to Urrugne.
I was not pedalling... And @Felix will be pleased to know there was a crosswind from the south and large trucks went by in the other direction.
I could probably have reached 75 km/h but I had to brake for cars in front of me. Twice, there is a speed camera and of course everyone slows to 60-65 km/h for that "just in case...". Food prices are rising so rice and ramen recipe books are on the coffee table 34.28 km at an average speed of 26.05 km/h (with 1 stop at 15.7 km) and 6.09 Wh/km average from the battery. Air temperature 27 ºC outside and inside 31 ºC, brilliant sunshine and no rain... Southerly wind gusting to 4 Beaufort, a little more in gaps between the plane trees.
Incident: an Asiatic wasp came in through the opening in the windscreen at about 60 km/h
It was sucked out instantly through the side window opening.
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OK I managed to get this section:
The first 350-400 metres are >7% I am in 6th gear at 16-17 km/h. Then it flattens to about 4-5% to the first corner. Hard to change up without momentum but I managed.
The second corner is steeply inclined and there is a huge tree root you have to avoid if you don't want to lay on your side... The very short climb into the corner is about 10%. There is a whole section at 3-4% which includes the 0% section, I have been looking for that for years!Hint: don't try stopping there and taking your hand off the brake...
And the final 75 metres are also a little steep.
If this gradient data comes from GPS it can't work, the road is covered by plane trees. My GPS gives fantasy speed readings the whole way through this section, even worse if it has rained and the leaves are wet = no signal at all. My first 20 kg pedelec allowed me to climb the whole section at about 24.5 km/h (seated) and my record is about 7 minutes something. I will time my climb next time. If I remember...
The first 350-400 metres are >7% I am in 6th gear at 16-17 km/h. Then it flattens to about 4-5% to the first corner. Hard to change up without momentum but I managed.
The second corner is steeply inclined and there is a huge tree root you have to avoid if you don't want to lay on your side... The very short climb into the corner is about 10%. There is a whole section at 3-4% which includes the 0% section, I have been looking for that for years!
Hint: don't try stopping there and taking your hand off the brake...And the final 75 metres are also a little steep.
If this gradient data comes from GPS it can't work, the road is covered by plane trees. My GPS gives fantasy speed readings the whole way through this section, even worse if it has rained and the leaves are wet = no signal at all. My first 20 kg pedelec allowed me to climb the whole section at about 24.5 km/h (seated) and my record is about 7 minutes something. I will time my climb next time. If I remember...