Agilo velomobile

Beiträge
1.084
ich habe den selben dämpfer.
ab fabrik gibt es den in drei verschiedenen abstimmungen und es lassen sich weitere abstimmungen fürs persönliche setup machen.
praktische erfahrung fehlen mir, bin mich erst am "einlesen" der möglichkeiten, weil mit gepäck meiner dauernd durchschlägt.
ja mir ist bewusst das man den druck je nach zulandung anpassen muss/kann, aber so richtig geschmeidig finde ich es eben noch nicht.
etwas infos zu den möglichkeiten fürs anpassen mit guten erklährungen.
Rock Shox Monarch - Tune ändern mtb-news.de
Rock Shox Monarch tunen für leichte Fahrerin umgekehrter weg härter machen.

meine erkenntnis als "anfänger" in der matherie.
die "kleine" luftkammer ist ein kompromiss und die einstellung auf das persönliche set up macht es dadurch nicht leichter.
 
Beiträge
1.939
Agilo had been parked for a while but last week I had a visit, Bodo Sitko dropped by to see my vélomobile! :giggle:

As you all know my vélomobile is the only one I have ever been close enough to to touch, so having a professional opinion on the quality of my build was very important. And in the end encouraging because despite some minor details the designer was happy with my execution of his plan.

- my Agilo is too high at the back. Some of the reasons I knew already - my rear tyre is 56 mm and the front ones 40 mm where the recommended tyres are 50 mm all around. Following the drawings on Shimano's Alfine installation instructions I used the wrong one and mounted the anti rotation washers the wrong way = about 10 mm. So in the future when I mount the 50 mm tyres on the front the floor will be parallel to the road.
- I am also not using the recommended chain tensioning system and have mounted an Alfine chain tensioner so the chain tube on the slack side will be routed through the floor and on the outside.
- the brake lines are too short which affects the turning circle :whistle:
- We also looked at several other details which are specific to my Agilo and so I have a (very short) list of things to do.

It was strange seeing my Agilo driving away up the road. It really does look quite nice despite the stance problem in point 1 above.

designer-and-builder.jpg
 
Beiträge
1.939
I forgot to add that many more of my building photos are now available here. Bodo has decided to open the support area to all so that the construction of my Agilo can be seen step by step.

Tech stuff from our discussions:

- on the web the body weight is given as 15 kg, that is for poplar. We calculated and my Agilo body is heavier by the difference in density between poplar and okoumé. Yay! :p The ideal Agilo body is one made from a mix of okoumé and poplar - that combines strength and lighter weight - 16.5 kg would be a good result.
- if you use West System Six10 epoxy cartridges you will need between 6 and 7 to do the complete glue job. I used 5 + standard epoxy glue mix with much more waste. If you try mixing tiny batches of epoxy that are too small then sometimes you will fail at getting the correct proportion hardener:resin and the epoxy will not cure. Trust me on that...
- on the web site the motor price is a bit more expensive than I paid, a Bafang BBS01B costs just less than 500€, tax and shipping included, from a German warehouse operated by a Chinese company. There is a German battery manufacturer which sells 15 Ah soft pack batteries for about 300€ in a bag and with a 3 Amp charger so around 800€ for e-assist and long range battery capacity.
- if I lived where it is flat I would not use electrical assistance. The cheap option would be an Alfine 11 hub with 52:18 cogs - the jumps between gears with the Alfine 8 are much to large in the range between 25 and 40 km/h. Unfortunately the Alfine 11 does not like the torque of the BBS01 motor because the steps between gears at interesting speeds are 13-14 so similar to a Rohloff. Bodo Sitko now understands my choice of gearing because he got to taste the Basque hills :giggle:
- I took a very long time to build, those who are building now are much faster than me. I only had about 200€ / month as my budget. There were also a few confinement periods so I just did a little bit every day, at one point I even had to wait before going to the hardware store to buy supplies. 4 weeks working in the evening and on weekends is a realistic building time.
 
Beiträge
1.939
And today a more extensive road test with most of the modifications recommended by Bodo Sitko (specific to my Agilo).

- I can drive 40 km / h for extended periods on flat portions. I am not at all fit so for me that is a good result. The huge jumps in the Alfine 8 gear range do not help. I imagine a long flat stretch of road with no wind, I could hold this speed at cadence without any major effort.
- 30 km / h in the direct 5th gear is almost too easy, is a larger chainring in my future? : rolleyes:
- no noise! A minimal chain noise of course but very minimal, no more than with the trike which is open! I do have the right front suspension strut complaining, last week it was the left so I guess they need some time to settle in?
- the rare times that the motor comes to life it is the noisiest thing in the vélomobile. It is very nice to pedal at my natural cadence and have motor assistance. Today peak Amps were about 9A and 3.6 Wh / km, much lower than my battery usage when I am VERY fit on the trike.
- I have not yet adapted to the Bafang assistance which is quite weak compared to my previous motor. I manage to climb everything local at least 11-12 km / h and that will get faster as I get fitter and I adapt to the power band of the motor. The goal is to climb at 17-19 km / h as I do with my trike.

To do:

- add another shim inside the BB holder, the motor still moves a little when I push on the left pedal. I will do that when I install the 39T chainring
- lights
- get fit ... : rolleyes:

Changes for which I don't yet have a photograph are the side windows cut in half a bit like the people with GoOne 3 have done recently. More comfortable in this weather and maybe not a huge impact on aerodynamics if you look at the above numbers, I can also do hand signals for turning. I will watch with interest the numbers when I am fitter, have my cold weather windows reinstalled and wheel disks - 45 km / h sustained on flat sections? It no longer seems out of reach.

For me my Agilo is "finished" because now it drives very nicely and in my mind the project is a success. There are no handling problems even for a complete tiller beginner like me, with an 80 cm track small driver errors are without consequence. I now consider myself a vélomobilist and there are no more issues stopping me from going down to the bike garage and going for a drive (in the daylight, more soldering required for night time drives ;) ).

Public thanks to Bodo Sitko for his plan. And patience ... I am not an easy client with quite a few wild crazy ideas of my own : giggle: It was an interesting year, if you look back this journey started on the 18th of August 2020. Of course I had to wait until the family holiday visit was over before beginning to cut wood in September. The result surprised me, I mean in the steering and handling area which, for someone who had never seen a vélomobile on the road, was slightly worrying. But it turned out just right - perfect tracking, healthy steering reaction, good road handling (today on less than ideal surface over 5 km perfect!).

My budget was € 200 per month. A sponsor helped with the velomobiel.nl parts but I have included them in the total cost. Unfortunately I had to replace my BB motor which was not a very comfortable financial situation and made me lose about a month finishing time. The total cost with shipping will be (2 front wheels to build to be complete) 2906 € and a few cents including shipping to France which is slightly more expensive than inside Germany. My Agilo is not 100% conform to the plan because I needed 2 x Alfine 8 gearing and so I use the Alfine chain tensioner also. I did not trust the Alfine 11 behind the Bafang BBS01B motor because of many years on a pedelec forum, that would be the ideal budget gearbox for people living in flatter lands and not requiring e-assist.

To be continued
 
Beiträge
1.939
For the first time in Agilo, my full 26 km "flat" training run:

Average speed 23 km/h (red lights and other stops included)*
Top speed 51.2 km/h
3.09 Wh/km from the battery (with more than 150 metres climbed)

I was working on cadence not on going fast but I again managed to hold 40-41 km/h over more than 500 metres on a flat section. There is a very short -1% slope just before that flat helping to reach that speed - 44-47 km/h in fact on that slope - which gets me into 7th gear which I can hold until the road rises again.

I passed all the other pedelecs! (y) I am not road racer fast yet but they do not disappear over the horizon when they pass me, they have to fight to conserve their lead.

The cars still pass too close. But lots of friendly waving and smiles. I guess Agilo will be making a very large facething/insta-whatsit presence today judging by the number of photos that were taken.

@JKL I am ready for the Bafang BBS01 settings, you can PM them to me if you want, I will be ordering a programming cable next week. Dragging around 3.8 kg you don't need most of the time is bad enough but those extra kg should at least be zipping me up all my hills at 24 km/h...

September has been declared "trike month", Agilo works as advertised, maybe even a little better (again today sweaty brow and dry back!) but I need to get lots of fine weather km in my legs so the front wheels will be going back on the trike. Agilo will get its own front wheels in October (I'm still on the 200€ / month building budget).

P.S. I made no steering mistakes today!!! :LOL:

*My personal records on the trike are 27 and 30 km/h:
- out of tourist season, lots of traffic today
- no red lights or stops
- very fit engine, I am not un-fit but I am carrying a little too much weight
- no e-assist for the fastest one so 7 kg less weight on the trike
 
Beiträge
1.939
Slowly but surely (I hope) I am adding little details.

Agilo was designed for 50 mm tyres, I have a 56 mm on the rear and had 40 mm Tryker on the front which of course meant that the rear was 16 mm higher than planned and there was a lot of room in the front wheel well. Now 49-406 (20 x 1.95") Maxxis DTH are mounted on the front, the photo shows the approximate difference in size:

40vs49mm.jpg

I need to road test - the weight is about the same because the Maxxis is a folding version of the tyre. And from experience with the trike the 50 mm tyre will calm the steering down a little.

I have access to a workshop again on the 26th of September so even more details will be improved - I hope to have working indicators for example.
 
Beiträge
1.939
Road test (first drive in the center of town for Agilo!):

1. Peak Watts 444W, often 160W -> 245W on the Wattmeter (independent from Bafang LCD)
2. I can barely climb away from home in the lowest gear, there is no sensation of motor assistance - I am down to about 60-65 cadence
3. Top speed on the >10% gradients is about 9-11 km/h, should be 17 km/h
4. 90 mm brakes are fine, 50 -> 30 km/h over a very short distance is not a problem (steep hill with one of our death trap speed bumps at the bottom)
5. 6.3 Wh/km - the same circuit on the trike is 7.5 Wh/km average but then again it provides real assistance... :rolleyes:
6. Today I was in the flow of the traffic at around 30 km/h - this remains for me a logical assisted bicycle speed, at 25 km/h you annoy others.

The new tyres are great, increased comfort, less twitchy steering yet still very good turning radius. Because of the 80 cm track and the large interior volume - I can move my weight around - roundabouts are a lot of fun. Reminder to self: don't be silly in the rain...

The right hand front strut needs even more oil, still making noise... :(

I added some padding under the ventisit on the seat bottom, much more comfortable - I used a 15 mm exercise mat.

Point 2 above I will improve by swapping the gears for 39-53T and a 1.28 -> 5.35 ratio (416% range).

I will cut foot holes, my heels touch the floor ever so slightly when my feet are in the relaxed position.

The motor does not move anymore. The BB holder no longer looks very pretty but as long as the motor does not move I don't care :cautious: The shims cut from a duck gizzard can are slightly thicker than the coffee can ones. Now it just needs to be programmed correctly, probably tomorrow if the computer is available.

I stopped to show Agilo to the epoxy shop guy "What! Just 3 mm ply? No glass composite?". Lots of amazed pedestrians - a positive point for Agilo is they can see my knees through the windscreen so they know that I am pedaling. I felt more in security in town than when I was out ou the road the other day because point 6 above, I was moving at the same speed as the cars. I even had to brake and slow down a couple of times because of cars.
 
Beiträge
1.939
Agilo is Alive!!!

Special thanks to @JKL for Bafang tuning tips! More thanks again to Bodo Sitko for a great pedal-electric hybrid vélomobile plan!

The Bafang is now delivering 100% of its power and climbs ordinary hills at 22-23 km/h, as it should, and the really steep ones at 16-17 km/h with a little bit of help from the driver - at least 150W... :giggle:

And counter intuitively, same route as yesterday and 6.06 Wh/km. Maybe having some real assistance at last has encouraged the driver to give a little more of himself? Motor more efficient at higher power?

I am not a huge Win10 fan, there are several previous versions which are a little easier to use. I had to install a pilot for the chip on the programming cable and despite some "unknown error" messages managed to get my settings into the controller. Then a test drive. No... No power, so computer plugged back in, settings checked, a box under the floor and a test in the living room - it works. Out on the street assistance level 5 and... still nothing! Don't Panic (written in nice friendly letters) try level 1 again, yes it works, so up to 2, 3 , 4, 5 and they all work now. The mysteries of Chinese silicon... :rolleyes: Now I just need to remember to use the correct gear ratio and a lower assistance level until I get the fan mounted in front of the motor. It will be on a switch, no need for a fan on flat roads and over 25 km/h.

I have tried searching the forum in German but it just doesn't work, can someone please point me to a How To balance SA drum brakes. My left brake is slightly more agressive than the right and the vélomobile pulls very slightly to the left during more "enthusiastic" braking :p But I am now on lesson 2 of tiller steering and the "brake steering" remains easy to counter.

More adventures soon when anotherkiwi goes shopping in the Spanish Basque country :giggle:
 
Beiträge
1.939
Today on the fast hill down just before the main road a car passed me at the top and I followed it down at 51.8 km/h and hoped the brakes would be OK for the speed bump at the bottom. Then I had to sit behind them at the roundabout breathing their exhaust fumes... But globally in town things are working better than I expected. Now I just need to get the fishing gear in and drive to the boat on Monday morning. Why Monday? Tide - high at daybreak, wind - not to strong and water colour - should be good after the rain water has been washed out of the bay.
 
Beiträge
1.939
I finally found a copy of EN15194:2017.

From a quick read it basically says any pedelec made from a kit since 2019 (when it became the law) is not legal on French roads. Kits are still sold in France and installed by bike shops but those can not be legal either because pssttt!!! the code for the hidden configuration of a Bafang BBS01B with a 500C LCD is "1919". Also all Bafang BB motor systems fail article 4.2.17 because a programming cable and software are commercially available.

End of dream of driving a legal pedelec... So I won't break any rules of the road and be very polite if stopped and questioned about "does it have a motor". :rolleyes:
 
Beiträge
1.939
More stats:

- 10.9 km and 4.79 Wh/km. That includes some 14-15 % climbs (and of course downhill too)
- on the main road there is a little climb where I am down to 20-22 km/h but everywhere else at 35-37 km/h so I stay easily out of the way of traffic.
- 26.5-27 km/h sustained up a +1% street so my legs look to be still good for >200 Watts :giggle:

Of course with me putting in >200W on the hills now the motor is not even getting slightly warm to the touch, I checked after a particularly steep bit up from the beach to the top of the cliff.

Of course with all that effort the shims in the BB shaft have started making noise again (noise = energy...) so off with the crank and more torque on the Bafang nuts I guess. There is no visible movement of the motor so that noise must be from sub mm shifting.
 
Beiträge
1.084
wie viel cm. bodenfreiheit bleiben denn da an der front ?
geht es über so bodenschwellen gegen tempo und/oder baustellen wo kabel oder feuerwehrschlauch drin verlegt wird ?
ich meine die aus plastik in schwarz gelb. zebra muster.
 
Beiträge
1.939
wie viel cm. bodenfreiheit bleiben denn da an der front ?
geht es über so bodenschwellen gegen tempo und/oder baustellen wo kabel oder feuerwehrschlauch drin verlegt wird ?
ich meine die aus plastik in schwarz gelb. zebra muster.
Now, with 49-406 tyres, unloaded 11 cm. During the first drive I hit all the speed bumps but ours are much more violent (Bodo's description) than the tiny little yellow and black ones.

I need to protect the wood under the nose but no structural damage occured. I don't touch any more...
 
Beiträge
50
Das Video zeigt das Öffnen der Türen ohne Seitenfenster. Kann man die Türen öffnen, wenn die Seitenfenster daran befestigt sind, oder muss man sie erst entfernen?
 
Oben Unten